Duel season situation (constructive critique)

作者： The_Empirezz, 08.06.2016 at 06:45

I like the idea of another league for lower ranks, they lack upgrades and strategies to compete with higher ranks anyway (aside from skill).

That's what Sun supports as far as I know. And that would be a great solution to avoid low ranks being in the same ranking system since they don't compete directly with us.

Thanks for the input

Finally someone that actually gets the aim of this thread...

Dmx is a great player, i played with him a lot in the past even helped him some times, no idea why he would farm since he's good

作者： RaulPB, 08.06.2016 at 05:57

'So is it fair for a rank 6 to win the duel competition just cause he hasn't dueled a single strong opponent? Is that what you're implying? In a competition, everyone should be allowed to compete with everyone else to have a far more representative leaderboard.'

-- When did I ever imply that it's fair for a rank 6 to win the duel competition when the player doesn't duel a high/strong opponent? It isn't fair mate. Everyone should not be allowed to compete with everyone else. We need a whole new system..

'Wrong. I haven't farmed anything nor I am doing such thig... Would you say a rank 11 like njab dueling a rank 3 is farming? If you think it's farming, then remove us both. If you don't think that's farming, then I shouldn't be removed either.'

-- Yes, njab dueling a rank 3 is farming. If that's what you think, ask admins to remove you.


'First of all, that rank 3 is the one you see in the leaderboard. How is dueling a guy in the leaderboard considered farming? If so, njab has also farmed. Thus, remove us both from the competition pls. Btw, he does know I'm rank 10, I told him. And even if I didn't, I personally asked him to duel and he accepted because he wanted a real challenge, not cause I simply joined his duels in beginners room, which I also could have done! Don't dare calling me hypocritical if you don't know the entire story! Btw, I always have rank 5/6 as a rank limit in my duels, so no, I don't duel low ranks! That rank 3 is the only exception and it is because he's in the leaderboard!

You can't call me a farmer. I have always dueled anyone who got in my duel, same as njab, when I was rank 10 and now when I'm rank 8. It's not my fault that any rank 15 joins my duels, is it? And I'm not gonna wait for them to join it, I'll keep playing who ever joins them. If this is farming, then consider everyone a farmer, not just me. That's really hypocritical of you.'

-- How is it considered farming??? Are you serious right now?? BECAUSE HE'S A RANK 3!!!!! I can't remove you from the competition, but you can ask admins to do that.. It does not matter whether he knows that you are rank 8,9, 10, or 11.. he's a rank 3 and there's no way he will ever defeat you. It's what we call farm here. Again, we need a new system.. let's not exploit our current one. To be fair, you can't call me a farmer. I've always had high standards LOL. Just take a look at my profile, I only duel high ranks. I know it's easy to defeat a low rank and gain easy elo.. so, I don't think you have any ground to call me a hypocrite.

'This is what I am asking all of you!!! Yet no one, fucking no one gets that this is not a thread to flame nor critique me, it is a place to find solutions.... omg, you guys are just blind... if this keeps being like this I'll simply delete this shit.

Btw, since you obviously didn't understand the aim of this thread, those lists are simply some possible solitions or alternative solutions that I've come up with. THERE IS NO NEED TO SAY I'M WRONG!!! Simply support the one you think would suit this game better or the one you think is the best... no one is helping in any fucking way and you're no exception.'

-- Raul, I understood, but it's not that simple. My only suggestion would be to create three different duel competitions. One for rank 1-4, 5-8, and 9-15. Of course, there should be some type of emphasis for those players who are dueling in the 9-15 tier.

For the curious guys, I'll say something here. Vast majority of my duels with low ranks are directly asked for by them -- low ranks -- because they want to test themselves against high ranks and learn from them. If they want to talk and listen to me, I usually tell them what's the best pick, what strategy to use, and after game is over I reply on their questions related to the game, e.g. what strategy I was and where did they make mistakes. It isn't my issue that they join my duels, I will play vs them.

Another problem here is getting duels with decent seasonal elo or overall elo guys, as they just don't give a fuck at all and make bad excuses.

作者： theFuehrer, 08.06.2016 at 10:26

作者： RaulPB, 08.06.2016 at 05:57

'So is it fair for a rank 6 to win the duel competition just cause he hasn't dueled a single strong opponent? Is that what you're implying? In a competition, everyone should be allowed to compete with everyone else to have a far more representative leaderboard.'

-- When did I ever imply that it's fair for a rank 6 to win the duel competition when the player doesn't duel a high/strong opponent? It isn't fair mate. Everyone should not be allowed to compete with everyone else. We need a whole new system..

作者： theFuehrer, 08.06.2016 at 00:01

'Remove rank limit feature for duels, where it simply doesn't make much sense.'
- Can you explain how it doesn't make much sense?
- There should definitely be a limit feature.. rank 10 dueling a rank 6 is never fair... so, i fail to see your reasoning behind this.

According to your words, there should be a limit feature. Therefore, a rank 6 could not duel with any high rank. Is that fair for you now that I've asked you if they would deserve to win a medal like that? Btw, according to your words, you're agreeing with me and thus you should condemn players like dmx, who always use the rank limit feature to their benefit.

OFC WE DO!! XD but since there is no new system yet, I will do something about it on my own. Btw, since we are in a thread about proposals... why haven't you suggested a system??? Go ahead pls.

作者： theFuehrer, 08.06.2016 at 10:26

-- Yes, njab dueling a rank 3 is farming. If that's what you think, ask admins to remove you.

Okey, remove me, njab and every single player in AW who has dueled a rank 3 and then I'll agree. Btw, I will reiterate that I first asked that rank 3 to have a duel and he accepted. And he is in the leaderboard!!! How am I supposed to not duel a guy who is in the leaderboard!?!?! Pls explain!

作者： theFuehrer, 08.06.2016 at 10:26

-- How is it considered farming??? Are you serious right now?? BECAUSE HE'S A RANK 3!!!!! I can't remove you from the competition, but you can ask admins to do that.. It does not matter whether he knows that you are rank 8,9, 10, or 11.. he's a rank 3 and there's no way he will ever defeat you. It's what we call farm here. Again, we need a new system.. let's not exploit our current one. To be fair, you can't call me a farmer. I've always had high standards LOL. Just take a look at my profile, I only duel high ranks. I know it's easy to defeat a low rank and gain easy elo.. so, I don't think you have any ground to call me a hypocrite.

A rank 3 that agreed on dueling and that is on the leaderboard??? Isn't that enough reason for me to duel a direct competitor??? Idk what you think I should do about another player that is in the leaderboard and has a chance of beating me. And if he has no chance whatsoever of beating me, then he shouldn't be in the leaderboard. By beating him, he looses elo, which he doesn't deserve if he doesnt have the skill. And I repeat, it's the only rank 3 I've ever played... and I would play him again if I thought he had a chance of winning.

In conclusion, high elo would mean that he has a chance of beating me so your argument is totally false and rank doesn't mean shit. So yes, you're being hypocritical. That's not farming, it's participating in the competition against my direct opponents.

作者： theFuehrer, 08.06.2016 at 10:26

- Raul, I understood, but it's not that simple. My only suggestion would be to create three different duel competitions. One for rank 1-4, 5-8, and 9-15. Of course, there should be some type of emphasis for those players who are dueling in the 9-15 tier.

I know it's not that simple, that's why I ask everyone. 100 heads should think better than a single one. Yet you waste your time and brain in complaining about me? Come on, make a new thread for that if you wish to continue this non sense.

You think splitting up everything into 3 categories would be a good idea? Wouldn't that make ranks 5-8 a simple continuation of low ranks skill wise?

Okey, and what emphasis would that be? I need suggestions, ideas, whatever. I'll edit the topic with them!

作者： Guest, 08.06.2016 at 10:46

For the curious guys, I'll say something here. Vast majority of my duels with low ranks are directly asked for by them -- low ranks -- because they want to test themselves against high ranks and learn from them. If they want to talk and listen to me, I usually tell them what's the best pick, what strategy to use, and after game is over I reply on their questions related to the game, e.g. what strategy I was and where did they make mistakes. It isn't my issue that they join my duels, I will play vs them.

Another problem here is getting duels with decent seasonal elo or overall elo guys, as they just don't give a fuck at all and make bad excuses.

I actually agree with you.... maybe you're not such a bad guy after all

作者： Franz, 08.06.2016 at 10:30

How do i play in main?

Em.... if you clicked on main room you'd probably figure that out...

PS: I am not criticising you, I understand you're dueling people of your skills, but you shouldn't be on our leaderboard to start with... I am criticising the system which allows this to happen

作者： Guest, 08.06.2016 at 10:46

For the curious guys, I'll say something here. Vast majority of my duels with low ranks are directly asked for by them -- low ranks -- because they want to test themselves against high ranks and learn from them. If they want to talk and listen to me, I usually tell them what's the best pick, what strategy to use, and after game is over I reply on their questions related to the game, e.g. what strategy I was and where did they make mistakes. It isn't my issue that they join my duels, I will play vs them.

Another problem here is getting duels with decent seasonal elo or overall elo guys, as they just don't give a fuck at all and make bad excuses.

Don't claim you have some high and mighty moral stand point, you farm any map that isn't eu, because you suck at eu.

Don't go advising on the big boy map just yet kiddo

作者： Phoenix, 08.06.2016 at 12:10

Ask mods to count my EU duels if you are such a stalker, retard. Also about sucking -- if you like to suck your boyfriend's dick, this thread isn't a place for it.

作者： Guest, 08.06.2016 at 12:28

作者： Phoenix, 08.06.2016 at 12:10

Ask mods to count my EU duels if you are such a stalker, retard. Also about sucking -- if you like to suck your boyfriend's dick, this thread isn't a place for it.

I can check myself and they're all vs low ranks and noobs. Gj Njab u the best.

Not surprised that you're the one bringing up dick tbh. Touchy Njab forgetting about his trolly playful nature?

作者： Phoenix, 08.06.2016 at 12:52

It's interesting that guys who always complain about my "low rank duels" actually never duel and make fake excuses or just run away. And of course I'll bring the dick with myself, I am not a woman.

作者： Guest, 08.06.2016 at 13:22

作者： Phoenix, 08.06.2016 at 12:52

It's interesting that guys who always complain about my "low rank duels" actually never duel and make fake excuses or just run away. And of course I'll bring the dick with myself, I am not a woman.

I duel every night I'm on so you can't be talking about me. FYI I cant play every night because I actually have a life, and I cant remember the last time you beat me in an eu duel.

Not allowing lower ranks to compete isn't a good solution as it prevents them from enjoying a side of the game they might like to explore or play intensively.
That being said, I agree with making separated divisions for low and high ranks.
In the high rank division (mid ranks included) players will receive the usual trophy as it is now, in the low Division top 3 places could receive between 20k to 10k SP as reward with profile trophy.

Divisions, limitations... for what? Not a single season a farmer or an alt won top 3 places

Farming is bad - but me getting 20 elo from that farmed elo is fine and fair paradox
Only problem are farmers who refuse to duel same or higher ranks and does who limit games to their rank

At least half the games of a player should be with same or higher rank or whats considered their rank group - suggestion, solution, voila gg

So my suggestion in aw is never make real limitations on who can play who... instead make ideas that reward fair fighting

作者： Goblin, 09.06.2016 at 04:00

Divisions, limitations... for what? Not a single season a farmer or an alt won top 3 places

Farming is bad - but me getting 20 elo from that farmed elo is fine and fair paradox
Only problem are farmers who refuse to duel same or higher ranks and does who limit games to their rank

At least half the games of a player should be with same or higher rank or whats considered their rank group - suggestion, solution, voila gg

So my suggestion in aw is never make real limitations on who can play who... instead make ideas that reward fair fighting

You've got a point... but maybe making a new low rank tourney could be nice for those new players who just don't stand a chance against us, right? And that would prevent low ranks appearance in our leaderboard, which is simply not realistic.

So you'd support removing the rank limit feature for duels for example?

Well, it sounds awsome, but it just seems hard to think of a way to reward fair fighting in regard to farmers

作者： Goblin, 09.06.2016 at 04:00

Not a single season a farmer or an alt won top 3 places

YES,LET'S BAN LOW RANK FROM PLAYING AT ALL.
Seriously start using brain,also it's okay for njab to duel people outside eu/+,but it's also ok for me to give eu/+ dueler my elo so njab doesn't win season.

Also you sound like too careful parents for low ranks.
That is not the solution. Let them play with big boys,eventually they will have to do that. If they are good,they will win,if they are bad ,they will try to become good.

作者： Black Swans, 09.06.2016 at 06:17

YES,LET'S BAN LOW RANK FROM PLAYING AT ALL.
Seriously start using brain,also it's okay for njab to duel people outside eu/+,but it's also ok for me to give eu/+ dueler my elo so njab doesn't win season.

Yes, let's all be constructive and argue which would be the best solution!! you sure used your brain there!

作者： Black Swans, 09.06.2016 at 06:20

Also you sound like too careful parents for low ranks.
That is not the solution. Let them play with big boys,eventually they will have to do that. If they are good,they will win,if they are bad ,they will try to become good.

Problem is that they don't do this. They are too afraid to make that step forward cause they don't wanna lose. Meanwhile they keep farming low ranks and make it to the leaderboard

作者： RaulPB, 09.06.2016 at 05:42

Well, it sounds awsome, but it just seems hard to think of a way to reward fair fighting in regard to farmers

i didnt really mean "reward" per say... by that i meant those who dont meet the quota of fighting enough players of their own range wouldnt meet the requirement to be in the leaderboard at the end of the season as they are clearly not real competitive players
I dont support separate "divisions"... "pls lower my sp" and things like that, alts fucking up even a few games before getting banned etc. etc. ...it would be a disaster

作者： clovis1122, 09.06.2016 at 06:02

You arent a bad farmer if you fight everyone clovis... although you did refuse my challenges in first two seasons because you feared for your elo... this is why i disreaspected you all this time, cowardice, not gambling

作者： RaulPB, 09.06.2016 at 06:23

作者： Black Swans, 09.06.2016 at 06:20

Also you sound like too careful parents for low ranks.
That is not the solution. Let them play with big boys,eventually they will have to do that. If they are good,they will win,if they are bad ,they will try to become good.

Problem is that they don't do this. They are too afraid to make that step forward cause they don't wanna lose. Meanwhile they keep farming low ranks and make it to the leaderboard

I was talking about farmed low ranks

作者： RaulPB, 09.06.2016 at 06:21

作者： Black Swans, 09.06.2016 at 06:17

YES,LET'S BAN LOW RANK FROM PLAYING AT ALL.
Seriously start using brain,also it's okay for njab to duel people outside eu/+,but it's also ok for me to give eu/+ dueler my elo so njab doesn't win season.

Yes, let's all be constructive and argue which would be the best solution!! you sure used your brain there!

I see that you started by good constructive solution,and it keept al the way down

作者： Goblin, 09.06.2016 at 06:29

i didnt really mean "reward" per say... by that i meant those who dont meet the quota of fighting enough players of their own range wouldnt meet the requirement to be in the leaderboard at the end of the season as they are clearly not real competitive players
I dont support separate "divisions"... "pls lower my sp" and things like that, alts fucking up even a few games before getting banned etc. etc. ...it would be a disaster

Sure, but what would those requirements be and how to implement them?
Yeah, I understand, it would require a hell lot of attention and supervision... not sure if anyone would really be able to take that responsability

作者： RaulPB, 09.06.2016 at 07:02

作者： Goblin, 09.06.2016 at 06:29

i didnt really mean "reward" per say... by that i meant those who dont meet the quota of fighting enough players of their own range wouldnt meet the requirement to be in the leaderboard at the end of the season as they are clearly not real competitive players
I dont support separate "divisions"... "pls lower my sp" and things like that, alts fucking up even a few games before getting banned etc. etc. ...it would be a disaster

Sure, but what would those requirements be and how to implement them?
Yeah, I understand, it would require a hell lot of attention and supervision... not sure if anyone would really be able to take that responsability

It's actually pretty easy. But I think it's needless. Low ranks can't get to top because they don't get elo from low ranks when they reach 1300+ seasonal elo. High ranks that suck and duel mostly low ranks will face the same problem, therefore only people who do real duels can win top 3 places.

作者： Guest, 09.06.2016 at 09:16

It's actually pretty easy. But I think it's needless. Low ranks can't get to top because they don't get elo from low ranks when they reach 1300+ seasonal elo. High ranks that suck and duel mostly low ranks will face the same problem, therefore only people who do real duels can win top 3 places.

But where do you think high ranks get their elo from? If all high ranks were to duel only in between, the elo pool would be really reduced. We need the elo from low ranks too to add more elo into the competition or else it would probably be impossible to reach 1300 seasonal elo.

Maybe lowering the amount of elo from which you don't get elo at all wouldn't be a bad idea to avoid farmers reach high amounts of elo.

作者： Goblin, 09.06.2016 at 09:17

Just make it automated somehow, with counters or something... no need to manually count duels. Requirements can be agreed upon...

Well, it's easier to say than to actually achieve! People here have a tough time to agreed upon the very smallest details, imagine upon duel rules.

An automated duel match up maker would be ideal...

First of all I'd like to state that I've never heard of an incident where admins Ivan and Amok had reduced someone's rank upon request, the only time I saw this was whenever someone SP farmed which is an obvious reason to. I'm pretty sure this is a recent thing that Sun Tzu did and is pretty stupid - I was told that you still keep your upgrades and it shows a negative SP so this isn't a "normal" thing that was implemented.

Also I'd like to suggest a better idea, which has also been suggested in the past (http://atwar-game.com/forum/topic.php?topic_id=19796) - Elo limits as opposed to Rank limits.

At the moment we can take the assumption that rank is used to indicate skill as AW offers us the choice of changing the rank to be able to join a game. However from my experience and as many others know, rank just shows how many upgrades you have and how much you've played/experience. I'd rather like to adapt elo into rank so that you should be expected to be skilled the higher ranked you are.

Basically: (these numbers can be changed)

Rank 5 and lower: 0 to 1100
Rank 6: 900 to 1150
Rank 7: 1000 to 1200
Rank 8: 1050 to 1250
Rank 9: 1100 to 1300
Rank 10: 1150 to 1400
Rank 11: 1150 to 1500
Rank 12: 1150 to 1600
Rank 13: 1150 to 1700
Rank 14: 1150 to 1800
Rank 15: 1150 to 1900
- Cannot change max limit, can change low limit
Now before you complain, these should just be the default and maybe you should be able to only change the lower limit (if duels are hard to find, not sure since haven't been active). Also if your elo is higher than these limits so let's say you're rank 5 and have 1337 elo then there should be some percentage increase for the max limit, let's say 7% increase. Using our example it would be at 1430.6.
The reason I say the max limit shouldn't be changed is because for elo to work you should be fighting people with higher elo as well as lower elo people otherwise it's not an accurate representation of your skill, and is probably why the highest elo level is stumped at 1600-1700.
I've kept the lower limit at 1150 for most of the high ranks because it might be hard to find duels, maybe if this is implemented and people's elo increases in the future these values can be changed.

My final point is on the idea of a lower league, which I think is stupid too since elo should involve the WHOLE playerbase and only skill should be rewarded. Elo farmers in the low ranks aren't reaching high positions in the season and certainly won't survive if this is implemented.

So much to read.

作者： Guest, 09.06.2016 at 10:57

First of all I'd like to state that I've never heard of an incident where admins Ivan and Amok had reduced someone's rank upon request, the only time I saw this was whenever someone SP farmed which is an obvious reason to. I'm pretty sure this is a recent thing that Sun Tzu did and is pretty stupid -

Hormigatomica is the first account that springs to mind