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作者： Darth., 08.05.2016 at 21:59
作者： ROYAL, 08.05.2016 at 21:45
作者： Darth., 08.05.2016 at 21:41
作者： ROYAL, 08.05.2016 at 21:35
作者： Darth., 08.05.2016 at 21:31
DS is not OP. It needs to be cost effective while expanding and the like, since its very expensive. 130 cost Helis and equally expensive Marines would have you going bankrupt if not for the bonus against militias and Infantry.
Its efficient against PD, and underpowered against Imp, another popular strat
You literally have no idea what you are talking about.
Underpowered against imp? you got to be kidding right?
It is the most cost efficient and reinforcement efficient strat when it comes to expanding.
You think 130 cost helies are expensive? SM bombers, Regular tanks, mos marines cost equally the same. The big difference is that Helies are much much much more efficient at expanding and they can carry a marine to capture.
And that marine also costs 130, which is why it's expensive. MoS you need to buy only 130 cost Marines. SM you can use cheap infantry to capture with maybe one or two chained ATs. DS you need both 130 cost Helis, and 130 cost Marines.
Also, I'm not saying DS is useless against Imp, I'm not saying you can't use it, what I'm saying is, compared to its performance against PD, it is underwhelming against Imp because tanks are pretty cheap.
Also, stop judging me based on my rank. I'm speaking from experience here when I say DS isn't as effective against Imp.
Lets see the bare minimum needed for sm or ds to capture a 8 infantry capital that can't be reached in one turn by ground troops
DS
6 helies x 130 = 780
1 marine = 130
Total = 910
SM
9 Bombers x 130 = 1170
air trans + 1 MILITIA = 430
Total 1600
I'm not judging you by your rank, I'm judging you by your elo, your relative inexperience in the game, your win rate (279 (won 85))
And that AT can be reused again and again. It's a onetime purchase kinda like lifetime premium. It's cheaper in the long run. So 1600-600=1000
Also you can get by with 8 bombers so that knocks 130 off the cost. 1000-130=870
You need 7 helis since it's easy to fail with 6 so that adds 130 cost. 910+130=1040
Ds you have to keep replacing dead helis and Marines while in SM, out of 8 bombers and 1 inf/militia you send, I've found that between 5-6 bombers will be left over. Helis die a lot more, and thus DS becomes slightly more expensive, which is why since it has less range, it needs that bonus against inf and militia.
Also, I've technically played less than 200 games. The rest are training matches. Both for my practice as well as me training a couple of lower ranks. Forgive me sensei, for being so helpful 
My low ELO is from a single duel with 1godofwar1. I got my ass kicked 
The marine doesn't die, you can reuse it over and over again.
Also , 6 helies 1 marine does fine vs moscow. You can throw in a 7th heli and it will almost never fail and it equal cost of 8 bomber + 1 inf/militia
HOWEVER 8 bomber and 1 militia/inf WILL FAIL MOSCOW A LOT. <<<---- A LOT!!!!!!
Also, if you sent 7 DS helies and 1 Marine so it's equal the cost of 8 bombers and 1 militia/inf, you will ALSO FIND that DS loses less units.
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作者： ROYAL, 08.05.2016 at 22:03
作者： Darth., 08.05.2016 at 21:59
作者： ROYAL, 08.05.2016 at 21:45
作者： Darth., 08.05.2016 at 21:41
作者： ROYAL, 08.05.2016 at 21:35
作者： Darth., 08.05.2016 at 21:31
DS is not OP. It needs to be cost effective while expanding and the like, since its very expensive. 130 cost Helis and equally expensive Marines would have you going bankrupt if not for the bonus against militias and Infantry.
Its efficient against PD, and underpowered against Imp, another popular strat
You literally have no idea what you are talking about.
Underpowered against imp? you got to be kidding right?
It is the most cost efficient and reinforcement efficient strat when it comes to expanding.
You think 130 cost helies are expensive? SM bombers, Regular tanks, mos marines cost equally the same. The big difference is that Helies are much much much more efficient at expanding and they can carry a marine to capture.
And that marine also costs 130, which is why it's expensive. MoS you need to buy only 130 cost Marines. SM you can use cheap infantry to capture with maybe one or two chained ATs. DS you need both 130 cost Helis, and 130 cost Marines.
Also, I'm not saying DS is useless against Imp, I'm not saying you can't use it, what I'm saying is, compared to its performance against PD, it is underwhelming against Imp because tanks are pretty cheap.
Also, stop judging me based on my rank. I'm speaking from experience here when I say DS isn't as effective against Imp.
Lets see the bare minimum needed for sm or ds to capture a 8 infantry capital that can't be reached in one turn by ground troops
DS
6 helies x 130 = 780
1 marine = 130
Total = 910
SM
9 Bombers x 130 = 1170
air trans + 1 MILITIA = 430
Total 1600
I'm not judging you by your rank, I'm judging you by your elo, your relative inexperience in the game, your win rate (279 (won 85))
And that AT can be reused again and again. It's a onetime purchase kinda like lifetime premium. It's cheaper in the long run. So 1600-600=1000
Also you can get by with 8 bombers so that knocks 130 off the cost. 1000-130=870
You need 7 helis since it's easy to fail with 6 so that adds 130 cost. 910+130=1040
Ds you have to keep replacing dead helis and Marines while in SM, out of 8 bombers and 1 inf/militia you send, I've found that between 5-6 bombers will be left over. Helis die a lot more, and thus DS becomes slightly more expensive, which is why since it has less range, it needs that bonus against inf and militia.
Also, I've technically played less than 200 games. The rest are training matches. Both for my practice as well as me training a couple of lower ranks. Forgive me sensei, for being so helpful
My low ELO is from a single duel with 1godofwar1. I got my ass kicked
The marine doesn't die, you can reuse it over and over again.
Also , 6 helies 1 marine does fine vs moscow. You can throw in a 7th heli and it will almost never fail and it equal cost of 8 bomber + 1 inf/militia
HOWEVER 8 bomber and 1 militia/inf WILL FAIL MOSCOW A LOT. <<<---- A LOT!!!!!!
Also, if you sent 7 DS helies and 1 Marine so it's equal the cost of 8 bombers and 1 militia/inf, you will ALSO FIND that DS loses less units.
I've failed many times with 6 helis and 1 marine.
Also, you have a while lot of free infantry and militia just lying around. Infantry when you start the game, militia when you capture cities. Use 2/3 free infantry, or 5 free militia with 7/8 bombers instead of a single unit 
I use a single AT for sending inf to both St. Petersburg and RC so that drastically cuts the price. 2 inf to Petersburg and 3 to RC. 8 bombers to RC and 8/9 to Petersburg.
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And the marine does die sometimes. My helis will kill everything in a city, but won't capture it cuz in the middle of the Battle the marine died (as shown by the battle screen)
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引句: 作者： Darth., 08.05.2016 at 21:31
I've failed many times with 6 helis and 1 marine.
Also, you have a while lot of free infantry and militia just lying around. Infantry when you start the game, militia when you capture cities. Use 2/3 free infantry, or 5 free militia with 7/8 bombers instead of a single unit
I use a single AT for sending inf to both St. Petersburg and RC so that drastically cuts the price. 2 inf to Petersburg and 3 to RC. 8 bombers to RC and 8/9 to Petersburg.
So you changed it from 8 bomber 1 inf to 8 bombers 3 inf now.
Lets assume we both take RNW and RC
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DS
Moscow
6 helies x 130 = 780
1 marine = 130
Saint Peter
Gen + 10 inf = Free starting inf
Air trans = 550
Total = 1460
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SM
Moscow
8 Bombers = 1040
3 Inf + air trans = 400 (inf free)
Saint Peter
7 Inf + gen = Free
2 Bombers = 260
Total = 1700
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Nope still lose.
作者： Darth., 08.05.2016 at 22:12
And the marine does die sometimes. My helis will kill everything in a city, but won't capture it cuz in the middle of the Battle the marine died (as shown by the battle screen)
The only way marine will die is if all helies die first or a bug happened.
Or you are in a confrontation vs another enemy over a neutral country.
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引句: 作者： ROYAL, 08.05.2016 at 22:17
作者： Darth., 08.05.2016 at 21:31
I've failed many times with 6 helis and 1 marine.
Also, you have a while lot of free infantry and militia just lying around. Infantry when you start the game, militia when you capture cities. Use 2/3 free infantry, or 5 free militia with 7/8 bombers instead of a single unit
I use a single AT for sending inf to both St. Petersburg and RC so that drastically cuts the price. 2 inf to Petersburg and 3 to RC. 8 bombers to RC and 8/9 to Petersburg.
So you changed it from 8 bomber 1 inf to 8 bombers 3 inf now.
Lets assume we both take RNW and RC
=============================
DS
Moscow
6 helies x 130 = 780
1 marine = 130
Saint Peter
Gen + 10 inf = Free starting inf
Air trans = 550
Total = 1460
================================
SM
Moscow
8 Bombers = 1040
3 Inf + air trans = 400 (inf free)
Saint Peter
7 Inf + gen = Free
2 Bombers = 260
Total = 1700
====================================
Nope still lose.
作者： Darth., 08.05.2016 at 22:12
And the marine does die sometimes. My helis will kill everything in a city, but won't capture it cuz in the middle of the Battle the marine died (as shown by the battle screen)
The only way marine will die is if all helies die first or a bug happened.
Or you are in a confrontation vs another enemy over a neutral country.
Oh piss off
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Use anti-aircraft...
AA is a joke. If you ever used AA you would know that AA vs SM bombers for instance does nothing. I've seen some pretty horrible rolls with bombers/helis vs AA.
1 AA can take out up to 7 helis, try it.
Lol in what world. I always use AA against helis/sm bombers, especially when I know a rush is coming. I have upgraded AA, and never have I had rolls such as that. 1 bomber usually will kill 1 AA
stacking effect is your friend. i had 4 aa kill over 20 helis once, it was 23 helis and a marine vs 40 inf 4 aa. However if you get outstacked then yea the aa wont be very effective.
1 marine?
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I played many many many times DS (and vs DS), it got a nice boost that is true, but it is not OP, u do very poorly vs GW for instance (but again anything do poorly vs GW  )
If it was as OP as you suggest, you would see it a lot more in duels, and quite frankly you barely ever see it
However in narb games such as 25/50K, DS is indeed OP as fuck
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Seule la victoire est belle
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作者： Darth., 09.05.2016 at 01:03
Oh piss off
Why thanks for that insightful comment.
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DS isn't an OP strat. not even close. The -1 inf more than makes up for OP helis. Also even now SM and MOS is a very good counter for DS in world games. So it makes no sense to make it nerfed.
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DS isn't an OP strat. not even close. The -1 inf more than makes up for OP helis. Also even now SM and MOS is a very good counter for DS in world games. So it makes no sense to make it nerfed.
-2 def in cities for all strats against helis, on top of the boost helis got. ok sure they arent op... maybe not a lot of people are using it as of yet, but it will soon catch on
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Arguing about which of SM or DS has a slightly more efficient taking of moscow is hardly a valid way to compare two strats overall for effectiveness.
Along with it's greater rang and maneuverability, SM has a sheer defensive velocity that DS could never match, forcing it onto the highly offensive edge of the spectrum, with all the severe weaknesses that entails.
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作者： Kraigg, 09.05.2016 at 04:41
However in narb games such as 25/50K, DS is indeed OP as fuck
sm and mos wreck it, particularly sm.
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作者： Kraigg, 09.05.2016 at 04:41
However in narb games such as 25/50K, DS is indeed OP as fuck
sm and mos wreck it, particularly sm.
I think u assume I am talking about world 25/50K, but I am not. I am convinced DS in Eur 50K is far better than SM or MOS, try it sometimes Lao 
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Seule la victoire est belle
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Arguing about which of SM or DS has a slightly more efficient taking of moscow is hardly a valid way to compare two strats overall for effectiveness.
Along with it's greater rang and maneuverability, SM has a sheer defensive velocity that DS could never match, forcing it onto the highly offensive edge of the spectrum, with all the severe weaknesses that entails.
Ds doesnt defend, you retake the next turn. Also cheap buffed militia with gen makes it good at defending if you can put the militia into your cap
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作者： Kraigg, 09.05.2016 at 04:41
However in narb games such as 25/50K, DS is indeed OP as fuck
You kind sir are very very wrong.This is answered by laochra above me.
This is answered by me:DS in World Map is only good for 5k,where most ppl use inf to expand or to stack so yes DS there is the best.
This is final results from a World 5k someone hosted and I as USA vs 3 ppl won with DS and then built stack to beat eu who was waltz i think,he had one enormous stack of inf with gen moved to birm the same turn i hit uk and killed his gen too and all those sp won me the game.Hdra was asia.Fun game.
This is how the world looked:
PS:Enigma memories
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作者： Kraigg, 09.05.2016 at 04:41
However in narb games such as 25/50K, DS is indeed OP as fuck
You kind sir are very very wrong.This is answered by laochra above me.
This is answered by me:DS in World Map is only good for 5k,where most ppl use inf to expand or to stack so yes DS there is the best.
This is final results from a World 5k someone hosted and I as USA vs 3 ppl won with DS and then built stack to beat eu who was waltz i think,he had one enormous stack of inf with gen moved to birm the same turn i hit uk and killed his gen too and all those sp won me the game.Hdra was asia.Fun game.
This is how the world looked:
PS:Enigma memories
... so in order to prove I am wrong that DS is good in 50K u show us it is very good in 5K...
I quite don't understand the reasoning here...
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Seule la victoire est belle
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作者： Kraigg, 09.05.2016 at 15:53
... so in order to prove I am wrong that DS is good in 50K u show us it is very good in 5K...
I quite don't understand the reasoning here...
In 5k most people go smth that produces mostly inf,they rarely go gw,mos,ds or sm like I like to do.
After winning their own battles they have to build stacks with what?inf exactly and here is where ds comes.
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作者： Kraigg, 09.05.2016 at 15:53
... so in order to prove I am wrong that DS is good in 50K u show us it is very good in 5K...
I quite don't understand the reasoning here...
In 5k most people go smth that produces mostly inf,they rarely go gw,mos,ds or sm like I like to do.
After winning their own battles they have to build stacks with what?inf exactly and here is where ds comes.
I honestly couldn't tell u I never play world games, but playing PD on world map seems rather dumb, I would have though most peopleuse SM and narbs blitz
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Seule la victoire est belle
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作者： Kraigg, 09.05.2016 at 15:34
作者： Kraigg, 09.05.2016 at 04:41
However in narb games such as 25/50K, DS is indeed OP as fuck
sm and mos wreck it, particularly sm.
I think u assume I am talking about world 25/50K, but I am not. I am convinced DS in Eur 50K is far better than SM or MOS, try it sometimes Lao
youre talking to a former world 50k/25k player, i only joined the competitive scene late r8 when i got bored. But mos and sm are still superior and for the same reasons. Ds is only decent if your opponent is right beside you, but i would still rate them as better.
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作者： Kraigg, 09.05.2016 at 15:34
作者： Kraigg, 09.05.2016 at 04:41
However in narb games such as 25/50K, DS is indeed OP as fuck
sm and mos wreck it, particularly sm.
I think u assume I am talking about world 25/50K, but I am not. I am convinced DS in Eur 50K is far better than SM or MOS, try it sometimes Lao
I can see it's perks in such a close map with such high funds, but how would you handle LB Anti-Air spammers?
IMO no air-related strategy is good with high funds. It's LB unless the majority of the countries are a port (then NC is better). IF is also a good choice depending if the map is really short (particularly for Europe I think that LB would work better than IF for countries like Turkey).
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(leaving pd inf with just 5 def in cities; this is equal to blitz infantry).
Blitz infantries have 4 defense in cities.... hence why several complains about it.
For me DS is just fine. I think that comparing it against a single strategy is wrong by the way.
For once I agree with clovis 
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In terms of strategies Atwar goes in swings and round abouts. I have seem similar thread for PD,IF,SM,GC,NC etc before, things get popular things decline, there are counters for everything tho. Enemy Playing DS pol? SM spa or Fra. DS UKR attack the hell out of his stacks.
Conclusion - strat is fine, adapt
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STOP BITCHING STOP ACCUSING STRATS OF BEING OP BECAUSE YOU CANT FIND A WAY TO BEAT THE STRATEGY.FFS.KEEP THIS UP AND THE ONLY STRAT THAT WILL BE VIABLE WILL BE PD.
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作者： Kraigg, 09.05.2016 at 15:34
作者： Kraigg, 09.05.2016 at 04:41
However in narb games such as 25/50K, DS is indeed OP as fuck
sm and mos wreck it, particularly sm.
I think u assume I am talking about world 25/50K, but I am not. I am convinced DS in Eur 50K is far better than SM or MOS, try it sometimes Lao
Lol DS good in 25k or 50k.Lol man you so funny.
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STOP BITCHING STOP ACCUSING STRATS OF BEING OP BECAUSE YOU CANT FIND A WAY TO BEAT THE STRATEGY.FFS.KEEP THIS UP AND THE ONLY STRAT THAT WILL BE VIABLE WILL BE PD.
You mean like cancer walling your DS ukraine?
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作者： ROYAL, 10.05.2016 at 11:39
STOP BITCHING STOP ACCUSING STRATS OF BEING OP BECAUSE YOU CANT FIND A WAY TO BEAT THE STRATEGY.FFS.KEEP THIS UP AND THE ONLY STRAT THAT WILL BE VIABLE WILL BE PD.
You mean like cancer walling your DS ukraine?
exaxclty even RP methods work.
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Nerf it and it will never be used
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R.I.P. Mortal Kombat 2/15/2015
~Cryptic(CDN)
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作者： ROYAL, 08.05.2016 at 21:47
GW marines = 10 cost per 1 att
Imp militia = 5 cost per 1 att
DS helis ~ 13 cost per 1 att (against infantries only).
EDIT: What you're naming here is just one specific case.
you should compare not only the attack. Attack is nothing if you arent able to focus this attack. SM can reach half eu in one single turn, gw miltia cant even reach kiev from belarus!
Back topic. DS is fine but AA should get a little buff, maybe +1hp.
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"War is nothing but a continuation of politics with the admixture of other means."
― Carl von Clausewitz
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We shouldn't nerf DS, but we should definitely buff anti-air. Making these units more usable.
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