Emperor Alois
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GG Alois friendship with Adog made Adog win it was secretly best Alois friend wins. p.s: its a joke
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!!!
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*gasp* Maybe there is some nepotism in this , very particular choice...hmmm...
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Perhaps the competition would've been more of a competition if the map editor actually worked and people bothered trying to use it.
---- Someone Better Than You
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With all due respect, as a non participant in this competition and as an avid scenario player, I have to vent my surprise with this map choice as the winner. This map looks like it was made in just a single day, and most importantly it is just a reskin of something Aetius and Pyrrhus made in the past. The map is not worthy of a top 3 spot with all the other maps that were released recently. On top of that, how come two of the winners are of the same clan? I have to agree with others that it reeks of nepotism, with the outcome already being predetermined.
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When you spent hours on a massive nation's border only to cuck you with a code error
---- Suisei no gotoku arawareta star no genseki, idol Vtuber Hosimati Suisei desu!
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Hug me, brother.
---- Someone Better Than You
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Saying it took a day to finish even though the borders look meticulously placed and the cities seem accurate to that time period. Yea no, please keep your inconclusive speculations to yourself; it would very much help everyone else out. I am not for mis-information and fake news and i don't believe Atwar should be used as a platform for such.
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*hugs*
---- Suisei no gotoku arawareta star no genseki, idol Vtuber Hosimati Suisei desu!
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With all due respect, as an actual participant in this competition and as an avid scenario player, I have to vent my surprise on this weird comment. Did you expect anything less than the best map to win? On a side note, not really sure why the genre you play is important to this matter.
I didn't know you went from avid scenario player to expert competitive mapmaker in the same paragraph. The way you compare this securely balanced (which obviously took way more than a few weeks to get it right) COMP map to a scenario which happened to be in the same time period just confirms you know nothing about maps or cartography, nevermind the competitive variant. Do you not have anything useful to add rather than some subjective speculation based on nothing but air. Or can you legitimately not fathom the difference between a good map and a bad map?
Ah yes, according to the avid non-participating ignorant non-mapmaking scenario player. Do you have any actual arguments to back that up? . Okay perhaps because it's the only active legit mapmaker coalition in atwar? Might be a reason, perhaps you could have known if you put some actual research into your fallacies.
Alright. First of all, I am pretty sure that it was meant as a joke, as the footnote litterally says. I didn't figure you to be illiterate as well! On top of that if you, once again, put any effort into looking up at how this competition was planned than you would have known that all staff-members had to put out votes to determine whichever map was worthy of whichever place. Although I sincerely wish it were to be true, accusing every single staff member of conspiring with Adog to put a formerly perma-banned member with a map "that only has one day worth of work" on it first in an atwar competition. How brilliant you are finding out this immense conspiracy! So which mods will be replacing the current ones in your utopia?
---- Infinctus Callidas, Decus Aeternum 
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Staff voted on all of this. There was no rigging or lobbying. If you have a problem (or nothing nice to say keep it to yourself). Mind you Aetius & Phyrrus arent the only map makers to release something like their maps.
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I've been making a few maps on the downlow and I know for a FACT that map making takes days, weeks sometimes even months. I'd love how such a map with research, Dedication to detail, proper unit balance and Integrity to the Quality of the map for a good player experience... Because that is the name of mapmaking, to entertain and bring good spirit to the game. Also regarding Nepotism, How exactly? This was a Game competition run by the MODERATORS and owners of Atwar, it holds no bias towards any clan, and gives everyone the equal chance to come out on top. Quality and good Spirit is the name of this game, Adapt or die if you want to win that contest.
---- Glory to the Nexus, Glory to the LIN, Glory to the Imperial Union!
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Yes well in that case perhaps you should keep your mouth shut when it comes to competitive. Go hide behind your trench stacks.
I was not expecting to win, but it would not be completely surprising. But this map was well-recieved by the community and by moderators and supporters. 
This border quality was not "made in a day" 
1) Never played any of their maps 2) Name me what map it looks like 3) This is a competitive, Aetius and Pyrrhus do not make comp maps.
This is poorly argued and unexplained. If you are going to say it's "unbalanced", well it is mostly balanced. Only Rome dynamic is being considered and possibly Macedonia. Rest is fine. Veteran players enjoy it. You are not a veteran competitive or ancient player. Most maps are far more unbalanced during their beta phase. What exactly is your argument? It's nearly as unstructured as your fake "academy"
Because we have the map makers??? Alot of them prestigious and historic ones (e.g. EJR, Tunder). Unlike your """academy"""
1) It was a joke 2) My map was actually disadvantaged 3) Are you accusing all staff of being nepotist? In summary Stop throwing out toxic, unbased, unstructured arguments.
----  
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This is probably a problem tbh, since forever in atWar staff has been of a specific demographic, generally competitive players, who would thus not appreciate a scenario as well as they'd appreciate a competitive map. Having prestigious mapmakers or notable players as judges would be a better way to go.
---- Someone Better Than You
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Most of the staff who voted were scenario based.
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There should be a people's vote. But I would have voted for this map anyway, unless my map was an option
---- Happiness = reality - expectations
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Can I have a list on who exactly?
---- Someone Better Than You
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No. This is where I'll stop, otherwise people will complain and that's just a sloppy show waiting to happen.
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I'll retain my suspicions on the voters' credibility then...
---- Someone Better Than You
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Lol, I love this map. I agree Adog.
Saying to a map maker "this looks like it was made in a day" is one of the most offensive, disrespectful and ungrateful comments you could have made. Especially when the accuracy and border quality and balance is at this level. Additionally, the map editor has been extremely glitchy and infact I've been struggling to make a maps. Stop being so rude and condescending to someone who is clearly trying to make maps for the community. He even said in his thread that he made it for a tourney SOMEONE ELSE WANTED TO HOST. HE DIDN'T EVEN MAKE IT FOR THIS TOURNEY. Why do you have to be so rude? Why so toxic?
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Agree should have been a people's vote - although that would leave it up to rigging, so I doubt the impartiality of it to be completely honest. More prone to bias than mods/supporters. I would have voted for this map anyway because I love how the east is done.
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Reading this I can only smell intense past grudges from someone who's lost all relevance he might've had previously and is now crying about it cuz clan dead xa
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---- Glory to the Nexus, Glory to the LIN, Glory to the Imperial Union!
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Its kinda sad to see how low atwars mapmaking has fallen  Just making maps and saying that egypt/macedon/rome/carthage is what ukraine/turkey/germany/UK is in EU+ is not really skillful mapmaking, and good borders dot make a map great.
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Trust me there is a lot more than that. If you think you can do better, please go ahead. I find it fascinating that the only people hating on this map (aka just you two) are scenario players from The_Empire. Yeah, you aren't the target audience for this map, and never will be.
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"Map making has fallen" It's ironic how you say that considering that this map is far greater and has more time and care put into it than compared to other maps that got lots more popularity than this. This is literally someone who is primarily a scenario playing trying to create a bridge between competitive and custom maps and putting the time and effort to create viable strats and expansions with said map. There's hardly even any maps with as much time/effort/planning put into them excluding maps maybe by Aetius and Pyrrhus and to add onto of that this was done with a MAP version. Properly balancing a map is infinitely harder than a scenario due to the absence of having events to balance potential sides. If anything that automatically puts in a much better light than a lot of scenarios and I think this is just complete unfair judgement without even trying to properly analyze or look at the layers behind the map.
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well i never really asked to be the target audiance  , anyway your mapmaking skills are rather low compared to some people i can see this. Should the judges be unbiased and good maps sent, you would had never won this, too bad your map will just be a small one that will never gain popularity and die out, while timeless maps like RoR series RoTK etc will always be played, im willing to bet even if they were sent in to be judged your map would still be first, not because its better (its alot worse) but because the "judges" of this competition are biased towards you.
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What a beautiful ad hominem attack. No reason as to why my map making skills are low. Lovely appeal to corruption which is not true. Nice try comparing competitive maps with scenarios. I also enjoy you ignoring EJR's response. Is he also apart of the mod conspiracy? Maybe dave is in on it too? Why stop there - every single supporter and mod loves me for an unknown reason even though I have not been active since 2014 (until now).
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I understand you are pissed but your map is subpar level, its very easy to make a competative map, just base of your countries with EU+ ones, also, no need for mods to love you , you are mentioning them loving you like they are the judges of the map making competition. All you did was reskin EU+ doesnt really take much skill in my eyes, same units, same base of how each popular pick should be played.
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It takes very little skill to make a competative map, its harder to make a scenario one... a "good" scenario map that is, and its way harder to balance it.
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I disagree quite resoundingly with the statement that its easier to balance a competitive map than a scenario, if anything with having to take potential events into account (some of which are done for flavor more than actual balancing which some mapmakers care for more than others do), its much harder to balance out a scenario, especially if we take teams into account where you have the chance of one player failing way too hard blowing the balance of your map. If you can balance around all this then you have done much much more than simply balancing a competitive map could ever take effort wise, at least in my books.
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This is completely untrue for multiple reasons. Why? In scenario editor you have a function where you can multiply income values, so let's say UK makes 50 income. All you can do is click the Uk and change it's modifier to 150% income and boost it up. Therefore balancing income becomes A LOT easier. Also balancing fronts is easier because you can just spam units, it can make attacker vs defender scenarios INFINITELY easier. In this game defense is already greater than attack and all you need to do to counter that is by spamming events for the attacker and they'll just outforce the defender so balancing fronts is 100% easier with events. Another way that balancing maps isn't easier is the fact that you have to take into account every potential action a player will do a lot more consideration than scenarios. In scenarios you have a clear idea of who you want to be offensive vs who you want to be defensive so you can adjust accordingly. In maps you have to create a possibility for multiple sides to be viable with both offense and defense, there's no "defensive side" because you can't just win through defending in competitive play style. I could go on further as to why balancing maps is more of a task than scenarios but this alone should suffice, but you're probably gonna try to dispute it anyways.
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That's completely right. But there's also the fact that you have fixed teams. Here I couldn't do that. E.g. Rome and Macedon could be on the same or different teams. You never know who will pick what. It's also not EU+ reskinned at all. I took a few inspirations from EU+, but the majority of it (especially with the new patches) are not based on EU.
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Events do make balancing easier, but historical accuracy has to be taken into account, and making a map that is both histroically accurate and balanced is very hard, while with competative maps you can throw away historical accuracy.
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It's disappointing to see again as a community Atwar can descend into nothing but a squabbling group of keyboard warriors, so hell bent on their hatred towards certain players/factions/communities that they will just berate them etc. Mapmaking is not an easy progress, especially in the ( sorry clovis) masochism that is html and any mapmaker ( one who puts effort at least) should really be complimented for such efforts. Personally I think whilst very aesthetic, Adog's ancient lacks flavour in its unit roster but has the potential to be a very interesting map and deserves its nomination. One thing is clear though that, the map making community is not in fact dead but clearly there and some talent still left. It's a shame however people descend into their camps of scenarios vs competitive because they are to be honest just petty and childish.
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To be honest I have not looked too deep into the winning map but need to state that there's more to a map than just balance and borders (which the original competition post implied is what maps are graded on). You can make a perfectly balanced map that's as bland as plain toast bread, and hell, you can even make unbalanced maps that are great to play, say there's a map where if the same group of people play it 100 times, one team will win 70 times out of this, such a map is not bad, if anything it gives the underpowered team a sense of challenge. Maps need to have some spice into them, and admittedly maps made by Aetius and Pyrrhus and those inspired by them generally hold the advantage in this department, with each faction having its own unique unit roster (rather than the default units with maybe an inf with +1 defence or something) and all of them playing out differently. All I can say is that it was a shame that Kaiserreich was finished just two days after the competition deadline, but alas. Also Estus' map deserves no love because Britain has more reinf than France in it and France, not Britain, was Europe's superpower in the early modern period, Waterloofags begone.
---- Someone Better Than You
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Yes it pained me greatly not to be able to expand more than just the default units (although the phalanx had to make a cheeky entry!). Mainly because of balance reasons. I will most likely be giving it away to be converted into a scenario map though, and hopefully whoever works on it after will enrich it greatly - to heights I could not do for a comp map! Additionally, I will probably be making a non-comp ancient world, and that will have a lot more flavour to it.
The whole point of this map was to try and bridge the gap. I am disappointed by the toxicity certain individuals are throwing at me. Especially the "looks like made in a day" comment, since I have more than 200 versions of this map due to glitches and bugs (EJR / black vortex can testify).
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Sorry but you're no Joan D'Arc. You are entirely patronising and condensing to people and to refer back to your comment on I believe Bubartem's academy? That's ironic because he created that cln to start recruiting low ranks into playing scenarios and you then pull out an old coalition which you used entirely to spite the Empire and steal its members.
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You have it wrong. Not going to spite anything but if you want to know more about what has really gone on this this community for the past 10 years, hit me up. I've spent time with all sides.
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Rank based pols to stop all this BS... I won't intervene but a public poll about this thing with a minimum rank limit of voting would solve all this.... And before someone replies " but but the staff" majority don't respect the staffs opinion because as this tournament it's appointed by a limited people's vote and no public one... Staff doesn't represt our community get it to your heads it's not there to represt us and will never be because simply it's not appointed by us.
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Well firstly, wrong - but I won't get into the history of that. Secondly, well, in that case, the most upset Empirezz and his minions are just politically motivated then? Cool. Nice. No wonder the critiques and random accusations that i somehow control the mods/supporters have no substance.
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I have returned to find an entire cryfest of not only Adog, but some other inactive discord dudes aswell. All this because a large part of the community disagrees with this map winning. To Adog and his friends: there will always be people with different opinions than you do, and you just have to learn to live with it  Furthermore, personally insulting me, my clan and other players who find this map unworthy is just low. On top of that, why do you keep pretending like we insulted Dave and the modteam? I think we have made our points pretty clear that this is about the map and the competition. I see what you are trying to do and I suggest you cease such manipulative activities and stick to the subject at hand. Though it would be for the best if you just stopped typing and resisted the adrenaline rush that you get from replying to me. I think people should draw their own conclusions based on the attitude of this mapmaker who is unwilling to accept critique, using literally mobilised inactive clanmates from Discord to make his point. I advise the staff to revoke the current results, and to make a less biased revision, involving more reputable players in the map choice, and having the judges and decisionmaking be more transparant.
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I'm just going to put my two cents in this, those rallying against the results I think the lot of you are being extremely unfair to the map maker and it's quite surprising since a lot of you have advocated for map makers and you're quite contradicting with your statements against maps. Most of you haven't even tried said maps before even passing harsh judgement.
I think this is also an unfair statement, you don't even know what struggle the map maker had to deal with re-drawing and redoing stuff constantly due to map breaks and glitches. I personally do not care about any of your quarrels with each other but the point I bring this is most of said harsh criticism is destructive criticism. Why are you going out of your way to devalue/tear down someone else's work? Especially considering you've not even tried it? You argue it's not worth of a top spot but you've not even invested 5 minutes into it to see if that's even true. I think the people trying to rally for a "rejudging" should be more fair to the map makers and their efforts put in and at least give fair criticism(devaluing someones map with comments comparing it to a "reskin" is not constructive in any manner) before going out their ways to rally against something you pre-judged solely based on looks(looks isn't the sole determinant in map contests, anyone can draw pretty looking borders). It just seems more prejudice passing such harsh judgement without properly evaluating a map and the layers to said map. Again, I don't care for this quarrel but I'm advising people to adhere to fair judgement.
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I placed second and in my personal opinion I think Adogs map was better than mine, I hate to admit it but I think he done a better job at balancing and has continued updating the map upon advice from other players. I also may or may not have secretly been following the maps progress and can say for certain it wasn't made in a day. That's just my take on the matter though, I think all that aside we should appreciate a lot of the new maps everyone has been making with this god awful buggy editor xD
---- Lest we forget Moja Bosna Ponosna
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Why hate on Adog's map and him getting first place, he deserves it. His target audience was Competitive Players and with me being truly honest I think most scenarios and maps are shit but Adog's Competitive Ancient was truly one of the maps I did like. As a Competitive Player I do think he did a great job at making the map and balancing it. So please, stop being salty.
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Most of what you said I agree with but this point here is a little hard hitting to me, I would have loved to do some crazy shit with units on my map(i tried too originally) but it was intended to be a competitive map and unfortunately the competitive scene very rarely like to try anything new and exciting. For that reason also I think Adog is probably receiving a bit too much hate considering he was targeting the competitive scene also and not say the scenario scene, i really hate to defend the guy since i have many personal reasons not to like the guy but he done a better job than me at hitting the niche we were both targeting. Maybe we can have a scenario strictly based competition and you can watch people like me absolutely fail xD
---- Lest we forget Moja Bosna Ponosna
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